Adopting an anti-inflammatory diet and reducing our screen time are some of the best ways to combat long-term degenerative health and brain diseases. I’m joined by Dr. David Perlmutter, my dear friend, neurologist, and co-author of Brain Wash, to talk about disconnection syndrome and our brain’s health.
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The first thing David talks about is how important sleep is. It’s the most important thing we can do to improve our overall health and our brain function, but so many people don’t prioritize it. Poor sleep has been linked to bad decisions, impaired memory function, and so much more as it leads to a decline in our amygdala.
David explains what we can do to reconnect with our amygdala. Doing so will help us stave off degenerative brain diseases and improve our overall brain health. He tells us that there are a number of different lifestyle changes you can make to help improve your brain’s recovery, and even help prevent degenerative diseases.
One of these changes is to adopt an anti-inflammatory diet. The current Western diet is full of inflammatory foods that have been linked to long-term health and brain diseases, and unfortunately, as these foods spread across the globe, other cultures will start having a prevalence for them as well.
Our society’s increased use of electronic screens is also contributing to degenerative brain diseases. David shares the acronym he’s created in his new book, Brain Wash: T.I.M.E. and how we can all keep it in mind to help limit our unnecessary screen time. We’ve all been there when we go on to check one thing and two hours later are mindlessly scrolling through social media!
How do you control your screen time? Do you prioritize getting a good night’s sleep? What lifestyle changes can you make today to help prevent degenerative brain diseases?
In This Episode:
- Why we make bad decisions when we’ve had a bad night’s sleep
- How we can reconnect with our amygdala
- How inflammatory diets are leading to long-term health and brain problems
- How you can employ T.I.M.E. when you’re browsing online
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Quotes:
“Our lifestyle choices are playing a huge role in the destiny of the brain and in the current functionality of the brain, and even in the recovery of the brain from serious issues.” (11:22)
“For years, we’ve talked about the fundamental role that inflammation as a mechanism plays in the genesis of things like coronary artery disease, diabetes, cancer, the whole array of chronic degenerative conditions, including Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, and Multiple Sclerosis that are related to the brain as well.” (13:37)
“We live in a world where we want to be productive, and there’s this crazy idea that to be productive you have to stay up late and study, get up early and cram, but that’s really bad in the long run. It leads to poor decision making, it actually threatens memory. So why would you want to do that?” (21:17)
Links
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Transcript
Dr. David:
The literal meaning of this disconnection syndrome is a disconnect in the prefrontal cortex from the amygdala. The prefrontal cortex acts to keep the amygdala calmed down. Everything's okay. We don't need to make impulsive decisions. But when the house is left to the teenagers with 30 of their closest friends, and the prefrontal cortex, meaning mom and dad, go away for the weekend. That's not going to turn out really well. So it's all about reconnecting and letting parents come back to the room.
Dr. Anna:
Hello everyone, and welcome to Couch Talk. I am Dr. Anna Cabeca, your host, and I am excited today with really one of my favorite people in the world who is our guest today on Couch Talk. He is Dr. David Perlmutter, and I hope by now you have recognized his name. He has best sellers in several countries and his new book is Brain Wash.
Dr. Anna:
I want to read a quick excerpt from his book, Brain Wash, and share this with you because we have a great interview coming up, and I know this will inspire you even that much more. So Dr. Perlmutter and his son, Austin, they write this book, Brain Wash, together. David Perlmutter and Austin Perlmutter, so father and son, and this is really going to be a bestseller. It's already a bestseller and a book that is a must-read that I encourage each and every one of you.
Dr. Anna:
In it they write, "We are all searching for the same things in life. We want happiness, success, and a sense of purpose. We want to be physically and mentally fit. We want to enjoy deep interpersonal bonds. We want our lives to have direction and meaning. But through bad habits and self-sabotaging behaviors, we can often get in our own way when we attempt to achieve these goals."
Dr. Anna:
That is so true. And in our Couch Talk, Dr. Perlmutter shares with us the reason that is, this whole disconnection syndrome. What we're experiencing not just as individuals with an increasing sense of isolation, disconnect, lack of satisfaction, impulsivity, but as a community, a society, and a world as a whole. Uncovering the reasons for this is fascinating.
Dr. Anna:
So I'm going to introduce you now to Dr. David Perlmutter. He also wrote the forward, which I am so grateful for. He wrote the forward to my book, Keto-Green 16, which comes out in May, and has been a mentor of mine for over a decade. So here we go.
Dr. Anna:
So it looks like we're live, Dr. Perlmutter, and hopefully, technology will continue. But what we're talking about is disconnection syndrome.
Dr. David:
You're right, our new book launched on Tuesday, Brain Wash. Do you have your copy? Ah.
Dr. Anna:
It's beautiful, and you signed it. I was thrilled.
Dr. David:
I did. Show the picture of Austin and me. So this is a book written with my son, Austin Perlmutter. There he is. We've had such a great time on the road the past couple of days. We did the satellite media thing where we were in many cities out of New York, beaming to various cities around the country, and very, very exciting.
Dr. David:
This is a book about reconnecting. It's about recognizing the powerful threats upon our brains posed by our modern world, whether it's the food we're eating, our lack of sleep, our lack of nature, lack of exercise, and certainly, certainly all the changes that are happening to our brains from our digital experiences. So we called it out, and I think it was really important to call it out. We also talked to people about what they can do, and you and I can talk about that in a little bit, but what they can do to offset these effects. But we know that these effects are conspiring to make us more impulsive, less empathetic, less able to think about the future, and this is a time when we need this more than ever, that's for sure.
Dr. Anna:
Well, what compelled you to write this one, Brain Wash? And say why you titled it Brain Wash, because I loved Brain Maker, BM for short, it was the perfect title yet again.
Dr. David:
You caught that. Not everybody did.
Dr. Anna:
I loved that. I've loved every one of your books, and I tell our audience here that's listening and joined me in this Couch Talk on this live interview with the famous Dr. David Perlmutter, neurologists, nutritionist, integrative functional guru, and just so far ahead of our times. I mean decades and decades ahead.
Dr. David:
Well, the title I have to not take credit for because it wasn't what I lobbied for. I don't know if people saw that earlier time on Facebook that we were just on, but my team came up with it and I thought it was great. I mean we're literally trying to clean wash the brain and get rid of these toxic influences that are so pervasive.
Dr. David:
I came home from New York last night walking through the airport at the Newark airport and nobody could have a conversation because even at the tables where you sit are screens in case you don't happen to have a smartphone. Everything is a screen that is captivating your attention, making you buy things, making you go down rabbit holes of interest that don't serve you. While that's interesting to talk about, the downside is that it's rewiring your brain. It's leading to more impulsivity and also fostering a sense of not measuring up, that you could be thinner, richer, more handsome or beautiful, all those things if only you could blank. Buy something. Do something.
Dr. David:
We need to reconnect with each other, and I'm very glad that you and I were able to reconnect tonight with all the technology. It brings to mind one of the discussions we've had lately, and that is that to be sure, we're not anti-technology. We think it's great. Look, you and I are talking right now via incredible technology. But it's about the mindful use of technology.
Dr. David:
Christian Lange won the Nobel Prize in 1921. He said technology is a useful servant, but a dangerous master. That was back in 1921. Those words ring true today when we know that when you have 10 minutes to spend on Instagram, that's a great way to spend two hours, and that isn't serving you any good. Beyond that, it's been said that when you're doing one thing, you're not doing another. You're not exercising, you're not out in nature, not interfacing with other people, buying good food, preparing your meals, paying attention to your sleep hygiene, all those things that can allow you to regain control and basically bring the adult back into the room as it relates to your decision making.
Dr. Anna:
It goes beyond that, that disconnection you said from our evolved frontal cortex, right? The disconnect from our frontal cortex, as well, to our primitive brain. That disconnect is part of the culprit. So there's, like you said, an absolute rewiring of the brain, and there's a physiologic consequence to that. The cortisol-oxytocin disconnects the type of situation.
Dr. David:
That's exactly right. We reviewed hundreds and hundreds of really well-respected scientific studies that demonstrate, for example, that one of the surefire ways that you can disconnect from the prefrontal cortex and light up the impulsivity center of the brain, which is called the amygdala, is getting a bad night's sleep. We all know, I mean especially those of us like yourself who've been through a residency, that, boy, what were you like the next morning after you're on call and up all night? You make impulsive decisions.
Dr. David:
Well, not only are you making impulsive decisions, but your amygdala is as much as 60% increase in activity according to some research. We know that when we don't get a good night's sleep, we make bad decisions, for example, as it relates to our food choices. Impulsive. Not thinking about the future me, the future you. That does what? It leads to weight gain, and that makes us have another bad night's sleep. So that creates a vicious cycle.
Dr. David:
So what we wanted to do is create the off-ramps, allowing people to get off that carousel and really begin to reconnect to that part of the brain to allow better decision making, allow them to re-engage exercise, get a better night's sleep, think about reconnecting to other people, and re-engage something that is so important today, and that is empathy.
Dr. David:
What is empathy? Being able to see things from another person's perspective. Where did that go? Why do we not have that? Why are people just digging their heels in? Well, I have an answer for it. It's because of this disconnection syndrome. It's because the Western pro-inflammatory diet fosters disconnection. It's because social media locks us into only one way of looking at things and excludes other people's ideas. If you're on a particular type of social media, that's your mentality, your ideology.
Dr. David:
We need to embrace the views of others. We sure need to do that. We need to embrace what the effects of our decisions today will have on the future, not only for ourselves, but for our neighbors, families, and even for the planet itself.
Dr. Anna:
There's so much that's evolved around this over the past decades. You've been in neurology for a long time, and you've seen a shift in mental functioning over the last 20 years of your medical career. What have you seen occurring?
Dr. David:
I want to answer that question in two ways. The first way is in general as it relates to in general how neurology is practiced, I haven't seen much. I've seen that the education and implementation of treatment modalities have not changed very much at all. It's all centered on billiard ball mentality of you have a disease, here is the quick fix medication. That breaks down when we talk about our most pervasive neurological problems, like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's for example, for which we have no cure whatsoever. As it relates to Alzheimer's, we have no meaningful treatment, as you and I had this conversation in 2020.
Dr. David:
A couple of years ago, there was an interesting article published in the Journal of the American Medical Association network that reviewed both classes of Alzheimer's medications, published by JAMA. It indicated not only what we had suspected that they didn't really work, but that actually they make people decline cognitively more quickly. The drugs that are being purveyed to millions of Americans with the families hoping that it's going to help mom or dad are actually making them decline more rapidly. It's not that Dr. Perlmutter makes that stuff up, it was published by JAMA.
Dr. David:
So as it relates to how mainstream medicine is treating neurological problems, I haven't seen much change. But on the other hand, we're seeing really nice support for people who are finally recognizing that, guess what? Our lifestyle choices are playing a huge role in the destiny of the brain and in the current functionality of the brain and even in the recovery of the brain from serious issues.
Dr. David:
My colleague, Dale Bredesen, for example, has been out there writing books like The End of Alzheimer's, an amazing book, describing how his protocol is being utilized. Unlike a magic pill to treat a problem, which is how medicine is practiced here in America, Dr. Bredesen talks about doing 36 different lifestyle changes to bring about improvement in Alzheimer's patients, and it works.
Dr. David:
So what I find thrilling moving forward is the functional medicine neurology club had one member for a long time, that was me, and I was the president and the treasurer. I was the only one on the mailing list. But now we have new people who are out there. Dr. Terry Wahls, for example. As mentioned, Dr. Bredesen. Dr. Dan Amen. So many people are out there doing great work and really bringing to attention the fact that we are the arbiters of our brain's destiny. It's not to be offloaded to the pharmaceutical industry whereby you live your life, come what may, and then when you suddenly can't remember things, there's a pill for you. That's not reality. That's not a reality where we are in 2020. If there were a pill, I'd be talking about it. But I wish that existed. It does not.
Dr. Anna:
Yeah, and your book is as close to that magic pill as I can get. I want to read one thing in this that you wrote in your introduction. You wrote, "Our brain's performance is being gravely manipulated, resulting in behaviors that leave us more lonely, anxious, depressed, distrustful, illness prone, and overweight than ever before. At the same time, we feel disconnected from ourselves, from others, and from the world at large."
Dr. Anna:
You connect that to this feeling of disconnection, to this lack of community, to this graver isolation and depression that we're seeing epidemically.
Dr. David:
That's right. For years we've talked about the fundamental role that inflammation as a mechanism plays in the genesis of things like coronary artery disease, diabetes, cancer, the whole array of chronic degenerative conditions including Parkinson's, and Alzheimer's, multiple sclerosis. So those related to the brain as well. Now as we reveal in the new book, in Brain Wash, this same inflammation is responsible for the disconnection syndrome for actually disconnecting us from the prefrontal cortex.
Dr. David:
What does that mean? We have higher levels of inflammation that are setting the stage for illness and disconnecting us from that part of the brain that allows us to make better decisions that might have been able to reduce the inflammation. Instead, inflammation is keeping us based on impulsivity in our decision making. So we eat the wrong foods, we don't go to bed on time, we spend way too much time on digital media, we're not out in nature, we're not meditating, and as such, things get worse. It's a feed-forward cycle. Inflammation increases, we lock into the amygdala, and we become extremely locked into a mentality of us versus them.
Dr. David:
Now what I just did was I connected, for example, inflammatory diets like the modern Western diet and us versus them fear-based mentality, emanating for the most part from the amygdala. When you consider that this Western pro-inflammatory diet is becoming the global diet, it means that global mindset is changing to us versus them fear-based tribalism, and that's not what we want.
Dr. David:
We know it's happening. I'm certainly not going to say that the change in diet is the only thing responsible, but it really begins to frame the global change in diet from an existential perspective. Meaning that things are happening around the world that isn't seemingly a good idea or bode well for our future, not the least of which is how we're treating the planet, for example, and our globalization of the Western diet being pro-inflammatory may well be responsible.
Dr. David:
The upside is if people get this message and realize that a dietary change may reduce inflammation, and as we've described in Brain Wash, may change how you see the world around you, that's going to be a good thing. So we're really over the top excited that this new book has already been acquired by 16 countries around the world, including Turkey, and Russia, and Korea, South Korea, Canada, France, Germany, around the world, Australia. So we're hoping to give tools so people can make changes for the better.
Dr. Anna:
And you illustrate it really well. I have to just bring up one of your other illustrations because it brings your sense of humor into play.
Dr. David:
Oh, lift the book a tiny bit higher. I guess I should start exercising again. My treadmill sent me a friend request. You bet.
Dr. David:
We got, gratefully, nice releases to be able to use these cartoons. I think it's a pretty serious topic, what we're talking about. But like when I lecture, you've got to have a little something in there to break it down a little bit, let people take a deep breath.
Dr. Anna:
But you make the points to hit home and give us actionable steps that what can we do? What's our next right step? What can we do to really make a difference? You've connected with this disconnection.
Dr. David:
We have. Let me just focus on a couple of things first.
Dr. David:
The way that we're using digital media. Again, what a wonderful opportunity we have to order a car, get in the car with a total stranger, order dinner, you name it. Reconnect with friends. Explore some things. It's terrific. But when we spend too much time, we know that that's bad. It takes us away from other things. We know that our attention is being mined. We know that the ads that pop up, the clickbait, is absolutely designed with Anna Cabeca in mind, and how interesting all these things are that you just think you need to explore that. Next thing you know, a couple of hours goes by.
Dr. David:
So we developed what we call the test of time. T-I-M-E. Time, how much time do you allocate for whatever it is you want to do online? I, is it intentional? What is your goal? M, do you remain mindful while you're online doing what you want to be doing? Finally, E, is it net positive? E, is it enriching? Did you feel like you gained something as opposed to having somebody just rob you of your time and make you feel bad about yourself?
Dr. David:
That's what goes on. That's what this Snapchat dysmorphia is all about, where girls more than boys, with boys as well, don't feel like they measure up in terms of their appearances. We need to call that out. That's step one, is simply calling it out. When people realize it's happening, it is a bit of a revelation. But then later in the book, as you know, we then provide these tools.
Dr. David:
The other area that we can talk about this evening is sleep. Incredibly underrated how unbelievably valuable our sleep is. We don't eat for eight hours a day, or exercise eight hours a day, or spend eight hours a day in nature, at least most of us don't. But we should spend eight hours or seven to eight hours, about a third of our lives, sleeping, and yet nobody talks about how incredibly important it is. We know it's important for the consolidation of memory. We know that we activate the lymphatic system to purge the brain of its debris if you will. But now we recognize that sleep reduces inflammation. As such, sleep helps to foster reconnection to the prefrontal cortex, allowing us to be more empathetic and compassionate, allowing us to plan for the future, and really be respectful of others and reconnect to others.
Dr. David:
So the literal meaning of this disconnection syndrome is disconnecting the prefrontal cortex from the amygdala. The prefrontal cortex acts to keep the amygdala calmed down. Everything's okay. We don't need to make impulsive decisions. But when the house is left to the teenagers with 30 of their closest friends and the prefrontal cortex, meaning mom and dad, go away for the weekend, that's not going to turn out really well. So it's all about reconnecting and letting the parents come back to the room.
Dr. David:
So sleep, or lack thereof is a powerful way to enhance this disconnection. Not only are we structurally and functionally disconnecting from the prefrontal cortex, the adult in the room, but this locking into the amygdala fosters our disconnection from ourselves, our future selves, disconnection from other people, and it fosters isolation and loneliness. Loneliness is correlated with our most pervasive degenerative conditions, including depression and including suicide.
Dr. David:
So one of the comments, interestingly, the book just came out, but one of the Amazon comments I read this morning was talking about how they should have this book in high schools. Just because it's an eyeopener for adolescents to look at what technology can be doing to them and what lack of sleep can be doing to them.
Dr. David:
We live in a world where we want to be productive, and there's this crazy idea that to be productive, you've got to stay up late and study, and get up early and cram, and all this stuff that's really bad for you in the long run. It leads to poor decision making and it actually threatens memory. So why would you want to do that?
Dr. David:
Again, part one is to call it out. Part two is what can you do to fix it?
Dr. Anna:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). You really go into that very nicely, and this is a book that definitely our adolescents, everyone, should be reading. Brain Wash. You give a dietary approach, which is quite keto-green, Dr. Perlmutter. I love that. I love the recipes that you put in here. Let's talk about your dietary approach, too.
Dr. David:
The key goal of the diet is reducing inflammation. As such, then you regain the ability to make good decisions and stay on a good diet. There are a lot of diets out there that are pretty darn good, whether it's to be all in with paleo, or full in on keto, or really hitting it hard with Mediterranean Diet. By and large, these aren't bad ideas. They're all pretty darn good. The issue is not lack of information, it's a lack of action. So Brain Wash becomes that bridge, then, between information and action.
Dr. David:
We've got great information out there. You write wonderful books, but the truth of the matter is your books are totally useless unless people are able to act on the amazing information that you give out. So that's what is needed for all of our books. We have lots of colleagues that are putting out terrific books, but again, most of the time we know that they sit on the shelf. These are books dealing not only with nutrition but with exercise, with sleep. Matthew Walker's wonderful book, Why We Sleep. Great recommendations in there.
Dr. David:
Dan Harris' new book about meditation. Actually it's not new, it's several years old. It's called 10% Happier. Yeah, great book. I just recently read it. But it's going to be useless to me unless I implement it. Meaning I have fostered a reconnection to the make a decision part of the brain, which is the prefrontal cortex, recognizing that lifestyle factors that I have control over are threatening my connection to [inaudible 00:23:30] that we have as humans.
Dr. David:
I mean chimpanzees have prefrontal cortex as well, but it's only about 17% of their cortex. We have about a third of our cortex, the top part of the brain is the prefrontal cortex. That's a pretty robust part of the brain that's dedicated to allowing us to do good things and make good choices.
Dr. Anna:
On the difference, the disparity, in Alzheimer's and dementia, memory problems between women and men, what are your thoughts around that?
Dr. David:
Well, I would direct everybody to the new book that may come out I think next month by Dr. Lisa Mosconi, XX Brain. So like yourself, Lisa was in our Alzheimer's prevention, The Science of Prevention, video. In fact, the entire program. She identifies a lot of factors, I think, that are playing, not the least of which are hormonal, and uniquenesses of the woman and the woman's brain. I think that we need to explore further why having two X chromosomes might double up on immune reactivity and increased risk for inflammation, for example, how the loss of the trophic effects of estrogen overtime may be detrimental for the brain, which you and I have talked about in the past.
Dr. David:
So there's a lot of great information that she provides, and she is just the best. She's like you. She's just so dedicated in this lifetime to doing things for people that are positive. So she is on the list, like you are, of people that I really, really admire.
Dr. Anna:
I love her work, too. I love her work, as well.
Dr. Anna:
So Dr. Perlmutter, We're putting a link here below in the show notes and everything, but where can we get Brain Wash and how can people connect with you?
Dr. David:
Well, I tell you what, it's everywhere online. I was in the airport coming home last night and I signed a bunch of books at whatever it was, Hudson Books or something. So it's in Costco, Target, Noble. So it's around, and I'm really excited about it. I'm feeling so good about the commentary. It's opening night on Broadway when you get the reviews in the next morning.
Dr. David:
I'm just so thrilled that people are getting the message. It's not as easy a message as eat less sugar, your brain will be better. It's a little more overriding in terms of being sort of the decision-maker before you embrace the idea of lower sugar. But it looks like that's happening. We tried so hard to make this understandable, and we have only a few reviews, but it looks like we're hitting the mark.
Dr. Anna:
Oh, it is. It's an easy read. It's a really good quick read. Not quick. I'm going to go into an in-depth. But I skimmed through it this morning in preparation, and I love the quotes, I love how you tie in everything, plus the plan and the whole part of breaking the spell, right? What are we going to do to implement and get out of this haze, this fog, so that we have this connection and intimacy, and greater intimacy and love and connection? I mean that's, at the end of the day, what it's all about, being able to really connect with people. Not virtually, although this is beautiful. I would truly love to give you a big hug right now.
Dr. David:
I'm feeling it. I'm feeling the love.
Dr. Anna:
Big kiss, a big hug, and congratulations on another bestseller, and really beautiful. This is a book that's going to drive a mission. I encourage everyone in my community to pick up your copy and read it front to back and implement it with your children. They're definitely at all ages where they can read it, or also we should be reading certainly many sections in here to our children, our family. I'm looking at one of my daughters right now on social media.
Dr. Anna:
But I love what you said, being intentional, and what's the net effect of it? Is it positive? Is the end result positive? I think that the capacity for discernment comes with this clarity that your plan brings us to and I appreciate it.
Dr. David:
Well, Anna, thank you for having me, and thanks again for all the great stuff you're doing.
Dr. Anna:
Oh, you are very welcome. Your website, drperlmutter.com.
Dr. David:
D-R-perlmutter.com.
Dr. Anna:
And Brain Wash, anywhere books are sold. Thank you.
Dr. David:
Thank you, Anna. See you soon.
Dr. Anna:
Another powerful interview with Dr. David Perlmutter. Again, one of my mentors, dear friends, and the author of the forward for my book, The Keto-Green 16. He is the author of, with his son, Austin Perlmutter, of Brain Wash.
Dr. Anna:
I know that you have gotten a lot out of this interview and are going to take notes and pick up this book as a Kindle, audiobook, or hard copy anywhere books are sold. Again, in many languages now, over 16 countries. It's a book that's going to make a difference in the world, that is making a difference. As you know, I speak about oxytocin and cortisol, the connection-disconnect issue. Dr. Perlmutter really brings it into our modern-day society, but with the practical actionable steps that each and every one of us must take.
Dr. Anna:
So I want to tell you a funny story that when I first met Dr. Perlmutter, this is in 2009, I was speaking at the Institute of functional medicine. They were having a congress in Miami, and I was speaking on peri-menopause and PMS. Dr. Perlmutter was one of the keynote speakers and I hadn't heard him speak before. I'd heard about this famous neurologist, so I went to his lecture.
Dr. Anna:
Let me tell you, I felt he was speaking right into my soul. I was mesmerized. In fact, when the lecture was over there was a crowd of people waiting to speak with him, and I waited. I'm pretty introverted, but I stood up there and I waited. Let me tell you, I was awestruck. His presence, his presentation, his sincerity, authenticity, plus scientific knowledge just impacted me. I felt he was speaking truth right into me.
Dr. Anna:
Each and every one of you, when you read his book, and this book with his son, is just a beautiful example of a caring physician, a healer who is changing the world and making sense of it as well, giving us understanding for some of the experiences that we are going through and what's happening around us. To our parents, to our children, within our community. It's a beautiful thing to see this to come together. I'm just grateful to be able to share this book with you.
Dr. Anna:
I encourage you again to pick up your copy of Brain Wash. Let me know. Please write back your comments. I want to hear about your comments, what you gleaned from it, and what your actionable step is. I'll definitely share those back with Dr. Perlmutter, as well.
Dr. Anna:
So thank you for your time and our Couch Talk. I'll see you next week.
