A staggering 80% of women across the world will have noticeable hair loss by the time they’re 60 years old. Hair loss can affect our appearance and confidence, but perhaps more importantly, it can indicate some underlying health issues or nutrient deficiencies.
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Today’s guest, Dr. Shel, is an expert in women’s hair loss and dedicates her life to supporting women through their hormonal changes.
Dr. Shel is no stranger to hair loss. When she had her second child in her 30s, she noticed some postpartum hair loss. It was important for her to find the cause of it -- and it was her research that led her to help other women.
Dr. Shel works with women all over the world to help them have their best health, both inside and outside. She recommends a consistent vitamin routine to promote hair regrowth and support hormonal balance. She also has courses and e-books designed to help you gain control over your own health.
Today, we dive deep into women’s hair loss, which affects over 56 million women in the United States alone. Different phases of hair loss require different treatments, but overarching this is a positive approach to your health and nutrition. We also talk about what technologies and surgeries are available when you’re just not sure what else to do.
Are you starting to lose your hair? Do you know what nutrients you need to keep your hair healthy, shiny, and vibrant? How often do you wash your hair?
In This Episode:
- Why women experience hair loss after pregnancy and in their 40s
- What the different phases of hair loss are
- What you need to look at from a nutritional and health point of view to help support your hair
- What nutrients are vital to help promote healthy hair and whether or not we should supplement for these
- What technologies are available to help hair regrowth
- Why the last resort should always be grafting and other surgical approaches
- What PRP is and why it’s important for hair growth
- What the best hair products are for hair growth and health
- How often you should really wash your hair
Subscribe to Couch Talk w/ Dr. Anna Cabeca on Youtube
Quotes:
“80% of all women will have noticeable hair loss by the time they’re 60.” (1:36)
“Low-level laser therapy has been around for decades for hair regrowth.” (14:47)
“When you combine the laser with the nutrients with balancing the hormones, the results are just incredible.” (18:12)
“Let’s try the natural route first. Let’s try to eliminate what may be causing the hair loss first instead of just putting a Band-Aid on it.” (24:54)
Links
Follow Dr. Shel on Facebook | Instagram | Twitter
Buy Dr. Shel’s recommended hair, skin, & nails products on the Website
Pick up the I-Grow Laser for yourself
Dr. Shel Wellness & Aesthetic Center
1437 Highway 6 – Suite 100
Sugar Land, Texas 77478
If you liked this episode, you should probably check out these past episodes:
- 137: How Essential Oils Can Help Reduce Chronic Stress, Migraines & More! w/ Dr. Mariza Snyder
- Understanding How Genetics Impact Health — Couch Talk With Dr. Mary Louder
- The Hormone Roller-Coaster Of Perimenopause
Full Episode Transcript:
Dr. Anna Cabeca
Hello everyone. I'm Dr. Anna Cabeca here with Couch Talk.
Today I have Dr. Shelini CONFIRM LAST NAME from Houston who is here to talk with us about hair loss, a really important topic that we as women really hate when we start to feel hair loss.
Dr. Shel
Yes.
Dr. Anna Cabeca
And it is just something that is really, it's one of those things that may torment us at periods of stress and inflammation. So, Shel, it's great to have you here today.
Thank you for being here.
And now, we just found out at the beginning of this call that both Shel and I went to Emory at overlapping times. She was a medical student there while I was a resident and then just live here in Georgia. So we were both for our Georgia teams last night.
Dr. Shel
Yes, great to have him right?
Dr. Anna Cabeca
Yeah. And Dr. Shel is really a well sought after speaker, she has been lecturing on hormones and hair loss and feminine rejuvenation around the country. I've met her through our friend JJ Virgin and have done various things with her, including interviewed her on our Sexy, Younger You Summit.
It's just great to have another OB/GYN in this functional space and in this really healthy aging space, too, that are looking at really tangible options and solutions for some of these things that are so difficult. So welcome.
Dr. Shel
Thank you, Anna. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.
And we are definitely discussing one of the hot topics amongst women right now. Because, you know, and we wouldn't think so, but 80% of all women will have noticeable hair loss by the time they're 60. Isn’t that crazy?
Dr. Anna Cabeca
Horrible.
Dr. Shel
And I don't know about you, but you know, I, myself have experienced it, which is what got me into it about 14 years ago.
So, my story kind of goes like this. I was in my 30s, had my second child who is now 14. And all of a sudden, I'm in my postpartum phase. And I'm just thinking, “I don't look the same, what is going on with my hair?”
And then both of these areas, and the frontal areas are just disappearing, literally, to the point where I did not want to leave the house. I mean, I got to the point where I just really got down about it. And I know hundreds and thousands of women out there are feeling the same way when their hormones start fluctuating, and their hair starts scaping.
In fact, 56 million men and women experience hair loss in the US alone. That's a lot of people.
Dr. Anna Cabeca
A lot of people that are affected, and some people think you have to live with it, you can't get it back. And I had the same thing, this temporary hair loss pattern that went way back to here… it was that male pattern baldness? It was horrible!
Dr. Shel
Yes.
Oh, my gosh, so, so heartbreaking. Because it really affects how we see each other. It defines how other people see us. And it really does affect our self esteem.
So, everything else might be going great in our lives, but if our hair is disappearing or thinning or just breaking, we don't look the same and we don't feel good about it.
It's one of those things that I really enjoy talking about, because it's important to really figure out -- why is this happening? And for women out there to understand the science behind why it's happening.
Dr. Anna Cabeca
Yes, I mean, often the theory, you know, initially is that, “Oh, well, it must be your thyroid, it must be your thyroid.” But there’s a lot more to it than that. Let’s talk about this hair loss and the science behind.
Dr. Shel
Absolutely.
So let's kind of talk about the different phases of hair loss.
First of all, I think it's important to understand that there are three different phases to hair follicles. So ideally, 80 to 90% of your hair should be in the Antigen Phase, which is the growth phase. That's the good phase, we want it to be there.
About 2% to 3%, only, should be in the Catagen Phase, which is the transition phase. And then the third phase is the resting phase, which is called Telogen. And about 10 to 15% needs to be there.
Now, what happens is, that's not always the case.
And so when you have hair in the Catagen and Telogen too much, you're going to start losing hair because it's no longer in the growth phase. And what affects this, it's called telogen effluvium. And that's the phase that's resulting in overall thinning of hair.
So when that happens, some of the causes could be stress, and we know a lot of women are under a lot of chronic stress, toxins, fungal infections, nutritional deficiencies, and of course, your favorite and mine, hormonal imbalances.
So hormonal imbalances is a huge part of it. But we have to remember there are other things that could also contribute to this. And that is the main type of hair loss. And that is what I said, that telogen effluvium and type of hair loss. The other ones are androgenic alopecia, which is sort of the male pattern hair loss, so there are some people that go through that.
And then of course, there's alopecia, which a very small percentage of people go through that. And there's some others, but those are probably two minor to really worry about. The telogen is the one that I would worry about.
Let's talk about what are some of the causes of get women to start losing their hair in their 40s. I mean, you know, I don't know about you, but my 40s were some of my best years, right? I mean, you know what you're doing, you know, you're in control of your life, you've already had your kids mostly, and you're feeling like, you know, you've got your life back in your own hands, right.
But then you start losing hair and you're going, “Wait a minute, this is not what I bargained for, right?”
Dr. Anna Cabeca
This is not how I feel on the inside, not what I expect to be seeing in the mirror.
Dr. Shel
And, you know, all that hair on your hairbrush and down the drain that really makes you feel bad.
So the things that you need to look at is definitely look at your thyroid function. Like you already mentioned, a lot of women thankfully, through education that you know, people like yourself, myself and many other people are doing, everybody knows now the thyroid does not need to be just in within normal limits.
It needs to be optimal.
But definitely look at your different thyroid function. Look at your 3T3 your 3T4 year your reverse T3 and see if you have enough of the active form of thyroid. So number one.
Number two: nutritional deficiencies.
We know that our food does not have the same level of nutrients that it once used to. So we really need to focus on looking at the nutritional deficiencies and, in my practice, we actually do a test to see what our patient’s micronutrient analysis. So we look inside their cells to see which of the 33 different vitamins, minerals, and antioxidants they’re deficient in.
So that's important along with looking at a detailed analysis of their thyroid.
Dr. Anna Cabeca
What testing are you using to look at the micronutrient deficiencies?
Dr. Shel
That's a great question.
I've been using Spectra Cell. Spectra Cell actually looks inside the white blood cells and it looks at 33 different vitamins and minerals and antioxidants. So I've been very pleased with them because it's very consistent. I’ve been happy with them.
Dr. Anna Cabeca
Testing is a big issue. And for some people that don't have access, even looking at red blood cell magnesium, not serum magnesium, red blood cell magnesium, red blood zinc is something that any lab can easily do for them even if they don't have access. Any other testing you would recommend?
Dr. Shel
I would.
I would definitely look at their iron - the entire iron panel. So iron binding capacity. I would look at total iron and ferritin. So, I’d look at that.
I would look at their entire thyroid panel. So what I would tell them is TSH, 3T3, 3T4, thyroid antibodies, as well as reverse T3. So make sure your physician is ordering all of those or you can just go into a lab and get those to your insurance. And that would be really key.
And then of course, looking at your cortisol. So you know, we talked about the stress being a big factor in losing hair. And we are all under a tremendous amount of stress in today's day and age, but look and see what your adrenals are doing. Right?
So, my favorite way to look at that is by looking at salivary cortisol levels. I tell my patients: let's look at their saliva and let's look at their cortisol four times during the day: morning, afternoon, evening, as well as nighttime. So it gives you your circadian rhythm and you can see if you have adrenal fatigue. Because once you know you have it, there are many different things we can do to help them out with it.
And then finally, your sex hormones which you and I talk about all the time. But women really need to look at their estrogen, progesterone, but don't stop there. You need to look at your testosterone, your DHEA and, as you know, you've done a lot of work with DHEA, it’s a very important hormone.
Melatonin, are they sleeping well? You know, you'd be amazed at how many women out there are sleeping less than five or six hours a night and you and I both know they need at least about seven to eight hours of sleep. I know I can't function without 8 hours! My husband already knows when I haven't slept - he already knows I'm going to be a different person.
Dr. Anna Cabeca
And add vitamin D.
Dr. Shel
Absolutely, added Vitamin D. So definitely do the vitamin D like you said, RBC, magnesium, zinc, your iron panel, and as well as all your thyroid... and then look at your hormones. So those are really important things. And thank you for mentioning vitamin D.
So that's really important. And so definitely talk to whoever your doctor is. Of course, it's great if they have access to a functional medicine doctor, but whoever their doctor is… Sometimes we have to teach our doctors what we need, what our body needs.
And so that's okay to just kind of bring it to their attention and make sure they're helping you balance all the different types of hormones and labs.
Now one of the things when you talk about nutrition, I've actually formulated a great product called Hair, Skin and Nails and just about every patient of mine is on it. Because some of the nutrients that are really important is zinc, biotin - high doses, not just a tiny amount of biotin, you need biotin about invest 6000 - 8000 micrograms of biotin, and a good absorbable biotin, not something that you just grab over the counter because, you and I both know, it's filled with fillers and it's not going to be absorbed.
So there are certain companies that I think do a really good job with their hair products. So that's what I've kind of formulated is something with zinc, biotin, and keratin. And those are really important supplements for hair, so, definitely measure that, then supplement it, and make sure your thyroid is working.
And look for Hashimotos, I mean, how many times have we seen patients and they've never had a test for thyroid antibodies. It's one of those things that unfortunately, it's not being tested.
Dr. Anna Cabeca
And thyroid disease goes untreated until it's so advanced that the TSH and the normal hormone that we test is so out of whack, right? It goes on for so long and thyroid antibodies is I agree with you, so important. Yeah. So important.
Dr. Shel
Yeah. Because hair loss, as you and I both know, is a big sign that tells us that there might be some Hashimoto thyroiditis going on, right?
Just to kind of point out along what you're saying, when you're looking at TSH, of course, you and I both know, most labs give you this really wide range, right? 0.4 to about 4.5. When you and I both know, you need to sort of be 0.4 to about 1.5 and no more than 2, right?
So that's very important for listeners to know where their body’s thyroid needs to be. So that's, I think, really important.
So when we're talking about causes, those are some important causes that are important for the listeners to know. Let me make sure these things are in check. And then we can certainly jump into, “Okay, now I've checked this. I know this is what's going on. How am I going to treat my hair loss?”
Dr. Anna Cabeca
Yeah, exactly! We all want our hair back. We want it to feel good again!
Dr. Shel
We want it to feel luscious and healthy, you know, just feel like it used to feel when we were younger. So I think that's really important. So those would be the really important supplements like I mentioned.
And then protein is really important, you know, because keratin and the hair is very important. And so you want to make sure you have a balanced diet, you are not eating inflammatory foods, right?
So, you and I both know, things like gluten and sugars and dairy and other inflammatory foods are going to inflame ourselves here, as well as candida. Fungal!
Fungal infections that could be down below and that could be up on our scalp. So we need to be keeping that in mind to decrease the Candida load in our body and maybe get on a probiotic and make sure we're not eating very high sugar.
So those things are definitely very, very important.
Dr. Anna Cabeca
Yeah, yeah, I agree. So let's talk about some treatment options, then, because when you talk about fungal... when I was in medical practice compounding antifungals into solutions to massage into their head for this, you know, like, “Oh my gosh, I have no idea what's causing this hair loss.” When we can't figure it out, just having that antifungal topical solutions as well. That can make a difference.
Dr. Shel
Yes. So you know, and if you don't have access to getting that compounded, maybe even use apple cider vinegar. This is like a really easy thing. People can just get some apple cider vinegar and really rinse your scalp with apple cider vinegar and then rinse it out.
That is very antifungal as well.
Some of the other natural DHT blockers and DHT, as you and I both know, is when testosterone turns into Dihydrotestosterone that can actually cause the hair loss on a hormonal side.
So some of the things that work is evening primrose oil, pumpkin seed oil, borage oil, nettle root, Saw Palmetto, all of those are natural DHT blockers that women can use to be able to decrease the DHT in their body.
If they're really suffering with a lot of hair loss, sometimes I actually look at, you know, what their ratio is between testosterone and DHT. And those are some important things as well.
Let's kind of talk about some of the technologies. There's some fun technologies out there.
Dr. Anna Cabeca
Okay. I’ve seen laser this, you know, laser therapies.
Dr. Shel
Yes. So, you know, one has to be a little bit careful about lasers, because all lasers are not made equal, right. But having said that, low level laser therapy has been around for decades for hair regrowth.
Now, what does it really do?
So let's talk about this. So when you have hair on your scalp, your hair follicles should ideally be giving out about two to three strands of hair.
So what happens is they need to be like, say, for an example, there's three strands of hair, they all need to be nice and thick. And then what happens with hair loss is they'll get thinner, thinner, thinner, and then one goes away, another goes away, then that goes away. And then you have essentially hair loss.
So first, you’ll have thinning hair, and then you'll have hair loss.
So the low level laser actually stimulates the hair follicles. So one of the low level laser that I've used for about 10 plus years, and it's on my website, it's called I-Grow. What it is, is it's almost like a helmet that you wear, and I've been using it personally for at least eight years.
I mean, it’s like super easy. It's almost like wearing the helmet. You plug it in, you have like a little connector to your phone and you're listening to music or working or what have you. It's 25 minutes on your scalp, 2-3 times a week. Easy.
What it does is it stimulates your hair follicles to get it again to that point of more hair strands, and then thickening the hair strands up.
So again, I will definitely say you don't want to just put a helmet on and not worry about what may be causing it because then you're just vicious cycle, right?
But this is a great treatment, while simultaneously looking at the causes and trying to fix the causes. But it definitely is safe. It's efficacious.
I've had patients have tremendous results with a combination of therapies.
So in my practice, what we do, is we definitely balance their thyroid, balance their hormones, balance their nutrients, see where their cortisol levels are, see where their nutrients are, get all that balance, and then get them on the treatment plan with the hair regrowth, nutritional formula, the hair regrowth laser, and then also PRP.
I'm sure you've heard of PRP for scalp injections, Anna.
Dr. Anna Cabeca
Well, I haven't seen it done for scalp injections. But I love PRP and the concepts behind it. So let's start with the that.
Dr. Shel
Great!
Well, PRP is one of my favorite things to do. Because what it does is it's using the patient's own blood. So we're drawing the patient's blood, we have special tubes that are actually created to be able to separate the platelet rich plasma from the platelet poor plasma.
So what we're after is the platelet rich plasma.
And so we spin it down and then we get what we need, which is the platelet rich plasma, grab that out and then we actually inject it in this gap. So say, for example, my hair loss was right here and perhaps right here. So I'm going to make sure that I inject it where the patient's hair loss issue is.
And when you do that, what it's doing is it's getting the stem cells, your own stem cells and your platelet rich plasma, to get in there and start regrowing the hair. So it's pretty awesome stuff. Because it's your own blood, it's your own platelet rich plasma stem cells, and you're essentially regrowing hair in the areas where you need it the most.
So what we do is just fantastic.
We do about treatments about a month apart. And then depending on the person, you may need some maintenance treatments every three months or six months, or whatever your customized approach is that we get you on.
So when you combine that with the laser, with the nutrients, and with balancing the hormones, the results are just incredible.
Because if you don't do that, then what's your next option?
Essentially grafting, you know, and we none of us want surgery, none of us want to go that route. So when you actually do the platelet rich plasma, you can use a micro needling device that creates micro loops, or micro channels, to put it in. But right now, the best approach that we found, and we used to do it that way, but the best approach is just to inject it in.
We have this -- it sounds painful sometimes, right? But it actually is not that uncomfortable. If you think about it. I've had two treatments myself. Why not? Let's make more luscious hair, right?
Dr. Anna Cabeca
Yes, absolutely.
Dr. Shel
And I wouldn't say it's painful, I would say it's definitely not something you're going to fall asleep during. But we use a cold air device, it’s called a Zimmer. And we blow the cold air, so the cold air will numb your scalp as you receive those injections, which are tiny, tiny needles, like almost insulin size needles.
Yeah. So pretty easy and looking cool. Yeah, it's really cool. Because it's the latest and greatest. It really is. And we've got some great videos of it on the website, if people are interested in looking at it.
But we've done it for males. We've done it for females.
In fact, it's really interesting. It's kind of a heartbreaking case, to be honest. I have two young, very young ladies in their early 20s. But they have a very, very strong family history of hair loss. And they're actually coming in for PRP injection on their scalp right now, and they're doing great. They're doing really well.
Can you imagine in your 20s to have that self esteem issue?
Dr. Anna Cabeca
Well, and also, when you look around, you can look around and see people with very, very thin hair, you know, and you're like, “Oh, my gosh, I don't want that, I don't want to get like that.” Especially if it’s your family and you're looking at your aunts, uncles, you know, grandparents, etc. And they have those issues. And that can be very traumatic.
But what I love about your style, always, is that you're getting to the underlying reasons like there definitely can be this genetic component that makes us susceptible to it and the environmental conditions, but let's enhance that.
So you're going through nutrients, going through eliminating toxins or toxic endocrine disruptors that could be causing that, addressing the stress component, and that creates an aggravated Dihydrotestosterone level, right? We don't want to know. Then balancing the hormones, really optimizing the hormones, and yet, let's get to the root of the problem, right? Let’s get to the hair roots and stimulate them, but not just a one shot, but continue. Because if we don't fix the underlying issues, then you're going to need this again.
Dr. Shel
And again, and again. And you're absolutely right, Anna.
It's sort of like what you and I always talk about, get to the underlying root cause, you know, and I love what you do. You know, when we talk about PRP, we talk about the scalp. But PRP is the same platelet rich plasma that we use down there for the O-Shot, right?
I mean, you're very familiar with that because of your awesome product, Julva, right?
It's amazing because it goes hand in hand. Because for us women, you know, whether it's hair loss, whether it's mood swings, whether it's hormonal issues, whether it's, you know, the female issues: vaginal dryness, atrophy, things like that, we need solutions to all of it.
And we want education, we want safety, we want efficacy, we want all of that. And we need it to be a customized, comprehensive approach rather than a shotgun approach.
So I always tell people: get rid of those toxins, you know, but pay attention to what shampoos you're using, I always get my patients on natural shampoo.
Dr. Anna Cabeca
Let's talk about that. What are the products that you're using that you recommend?
Dr. Shel
So there's a great company that I actually use called Just Natural as far as their shampoo line. It's on my website, it's really clean. And that's who actually makes the shampoo, the conditioner, I really recommend a hot oil treatment because we need that nourishment for our scalp and for our hair.
And then I recommend the vinegar rinse, which is by the same company, because every week or so, we need to just rinse all that stuff out of our scalp o we can start anew. Because we do have fungal infections that a lot of people have and toxins just clogging up the pores.
So when you do sort of that 4 step thing, shampoo & conditioner on a daily, every other, every third day. I personally don't think we need to wash our hair every day, we need to leave some of the natural oils in the hair.
And so I always tell my patients try to wash your hair every second day or every third day and see how long you can go without it. We don't want you to have greasy hair.
But at the same time, you know, keep some of that natural stuff there and then rinse your hair out and nourish it with the hot oil.
So I think there's a lot of information and that's why I like to give a free ebook to patients so that they can get a lot of this information and not have to spend a dime to try to educate themselves. And then if they want to really dig deeper, then we've created a program, an online program, and it's called Get Your Hair Back with Dr. Shel.
Dr. Anna Cabeca
I love it and then your nutritional supplements that you have clinical experience with. I mean they work and that's a key thing. Tell us the name of your eBook, again?
Dr. Shel
Hair Loss: Seven Things You Need to Know.
Dr. Anna Cabeca
Okay, so definitely and we'll have a link to that and Dr. Shel;s website is drshell.com and your clinic, tell us where your clinic is located in.
Dr. Shel
So my clinic is in Houston, Texas. And so pretty centralized, we see patients from all over the country and, actually, all over the world, and we do a lot of telemedicine.
So, you know, if patients are interested in just figuring out what they need to do, then they can just schedule for initially just a complimentary consultation with one of the consultants and then see if there's something that they really need help with. You know, we like to customize it. There's no one size fits all approach. We have to do it based on what each individual's needs are.
Dr. Anna Cabeca
Yeah, I'm glad you said that, too. And it brings into mind also we want to heal our hair, we have to put something on it. So the big thing for women with hair loss, men with hair loss, was Rogaine shampoo, what are your thoughts about that?
Dr. Shel
Well, again, I mean, because I try to be really natural with things, there are other natural approaches that you can take for stimulating hair. I'm not opposed to it because there are some people that really need to hit it from all different angles. But let's try the natural routes first, let's try to eliminate what may be causing the hair loss first, instead of putting a Bandaid on it, right.
Dr. Anna Cabeca
I agree and, plus, in the research too, it's not very significant improvement over our scalp massage itself, but there is some. So that’s another couple of percentage points, but anything you said, I recommend.
And then our conversation of the hot oil treatment reminds me of a conversation with Magdalena Wilensky, who is from Poland and she said they grew up really poor and they used eggs to shampoo their hair. So I added that to my hair mask, which was olive oil, then adding an egg and some coconut oil, and doing a hair mask once in awhile. But now I think rinsing with the apple cider vinegar that I'm definitely adding that, because we know apple cider vinegar is so good for so many things.
Dr. Shel
It's really funny. I mean, you know, they say that our ancestors knew it all, right? We just didn't learn as much as we should have from them. But my mom is staying with me right now and she loves to just put oil in my hair and I love it. I love the scalp massage, I love coconut oil.
Now when my husband's right next to me he's like, “oh my gosh that kind of smells a little bit!” And I'm like, “no, I love it!” You know? But it really gives you the nutrients that you need so I mean if you can do it, use what Anna's recipe is, you know coconut oil, olive oil and the egg and that just kind of mask it, you know? Put the mask on and rub it in. I think it's great nutrition for our hair and our scalp.
Dr. Anna Cabeca
I think for the apple cider vinegar… Does the smell come out when you rinse?
Dr. Shel
It does! It actually does. It doesn't smell bad, it rinses out and it smells kind of fresh actually.
Dr. Anna Cabeca
Well thank you Dr. Shel for joining us today and for listeners any questions, just put them below. Be sure to share this podcast with your friends, family, this is information we want to get out because so many women are told that if your thyroids normal when you're coming in with hair loss, but there's a lot more to hair loss than that.
I know you've probably received as well as I have coming into my office, women are just freaked out and bring these handfuls of hair that are at the end of sink and I know how traumatizing that is after having experienced it myself.
So thyroid may be part of the answer, but it may not be, but don't stop looking there.
So Dr. Shel has her ebook, Hair Loss: The Seven Things You Need to Know About It. I highly recommend that, we're going to put the link in our show notes.
This is available on iTunes and YouTube and we'll post it on social media as well.
So again, please be sure to like it.
Leave us a review on iTunes as well, that helps us so much and connect with Dr. Shel and drshel.com.
Thank you so much for being with us.
Dr. Shel
Thank you, Anna, it’s been a great pleasure being here.
Take care. Bye bye.
